Need for Speed Racing Games

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 11/03/2009 11:36:18

cem_ea_id.Bradbury wrote:From the first day of playing this game, I’ve been an advocate of adding the possibility for the host of an online game to choose which assists and handling mode can be used in that game. For the last couple of weeks I’ve had a sneaking suspicion that maybe the latter is actually possible. Today I feel this suspicion has been confirmed.

I usually play with Normal handling mode because it’s what’s most competitive online. Several times I’ve struggled with grip and while still driving well, my laptimes has been well off what I’ve done before. This is what prompted me to think that maybe the host doesn’t play on Normal and that the other players adopt his setting. Today after six laps (two plus four) on Laguna Seca, where my best lap was more than two seconds slower than what it should have been, I asked the host if he was on Pro, Experienced or Normal. His answer was Experienced. I take this as a confirmation of my earlier suspicion.

While I’m glad that it’s actually possible to do this as a host, I think it’s just sad that it’s impossible for others to see which handling mode is being used in a game. It shouldn’t only be visible, it should also be possible to filter on this. If you want to find a Pro game, then you should be able to select this when you’re looking for a custom race. Of course, today’s online game selector is 100 % useless, so more important things needs to be done first.

Ummm, no. Do you really think NOBODY would notice the transition if in online races some hosts would force steering and braking assist on others?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 11/03/2009 12:07:41

cem_ea_id.globalista wrote:

cem_ea_id.Bradbury wrote:From the first day of playing this game, I’ve been an advocate of adding the possibility for the host of an online game to choose which assists and handling mode can be used in that game. For the last couple of weeks I’ve had a sneaking suspicion that maybe the latter is actually possible. Today I feel this suspicion has been confirmed.

I usually play with Normal handling mode because it’s what’s most competitive online. Several times I’ve struggled with grip and while still driving well, my laptimes has been well off what I’ve done before. This is what prompted me to think that maybe the host doesn’t play on Normal and that the other players adopt his setting. Today after six laps (two plus four) on Laguna Seca, where my best lap was more than two seconds slower than what it should have been, I asked the host if he was on Pro, Experienced or Normal. His answer was Experienced. I take this as a confirmation of my earlier suspicion.

While I’m glad that it’s actually possible to do this as a host, I think it’s just sad that it’s impossible for others to see which handling mode is being used in a game. It shouldn’t only be visible, it should also be possible to filter on this. If you want to find a Pro game, then you should be able to select this when you’re looking for a custom race. Of course, today’s online game selector is 100 % useless, so more important things needs to be done first.

Ummm, no. Do you really think NOBODY would notice the transition if in online races some hosts would force steering and braking assist on others?

steering physics and assists is completely different

you can turn assists off, you can't adjust grip or center of gravity

if your "setting" is all off, you'll play with all off, but if you were on Pro physics, with lower grip and higher center of gravity = less stable, and played on normal, it would make pretty noticeable difference

but if you play on normal, and with assists turned on, chances are, even on pro, you'll have assists on... I doubt they'd take it off, even though you can't turn it on in Pro mode

cem_ea_id.globalista wrote:Ummm, no. Do you really think NOBODY would notice the transition if in online races some hosts would force steering and braking assist on others?

You're obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed, so let me explain it for you. I mentioned "assists" and "handling mode", then I said that the latter is likely possible to force. The latter - in this context - meaning the last of the two, i.e. "handling mode". Is that too hard for you to understand?

Also, when we're talking about "force" when it comes to the use of assists and handling mode, it should go without saying that what we want is the ability to select what should be the easiest setting that can be used in a race. Not to force people to use easier settings than they normally use. If someone prefers to always use Pro without any assists, then of course they should be able to do so. However, those who prefer to race on Normal with assists would not be able to use these settings in certain races.

cem_ea_id.Bradbury wrote:

cem_ea_id.globalista wrote:Ummm, no. Do you really think NOBODY would notice the transition if in online races some hosts would force steering and braking assist on others?

You're obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed, so let me explain it for you. I mentioned "assists" and "handling mode", then I said that the latter is likely possible to force. The latter - in this context - meaning the last of the two, i.e. "handling mode". Is that too hard for you to understand?

Ah ok. But..

Surely you do realize the 4 "handling modes" (novice, normal, pro, expert) are just 4 different names for 4 different handling/assists presets? Try to cycle between the modes in Options and see for yourself. They become meaningless as soon as you change any setting within that preset. Let me explain.

For Normal mode, by default the assists are on low. So if you say you're playing on Normal, does that mean you're playing with assists on? No, you surely aren't a noob. So what happens when you let's say turn off those assists, and also set traction control all the way down for good measure? You guessed it, you're still on "Normal" handling mode.

What this means is that there's no tellling what normal or whichever other mode really means. Maybe a bug? But either way, filtering your online games by "handling mode" would be meaningless.

Hope I'm making sense...

cem_ea_id.globalista wrote:Surely you do realize the 4 "handling modes" (novice, normal, pro, expert) are just 4 different names for 4 different handling/assists presets? Try to cycle between the modes in Options and see for yourself. They become meaningless as soon as you change any setting within that preset. Let me explain.

No dude! That's exactly what I thought before, but in fact those are not only driving aids pre-sets but all of them stands for a different physics model. I checked, they are right.
It's absolutely different handling when u set to 'normal' mode and switch off all the aids comparing to 'experienced' or 'pro', also with all the aids off. That's a fact. Try it urself and ull see.
Cheers

As I recall, Pro has a "grip factor" of 1.2 while Experienced has 1.3. It's also 1.3 for Normal, but it has a lower center of gravity which means a lot. Casual has 1.45 grip, but you can't turn off braking- and steering assists, so it's a worthless mode.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 11/03/2009 16:58:59

cem_ea_id.Bradbury wrote:I usually play with Normal handling mode. where my best lap was more than two seconds slower than what it should have been, I asked the host if he was on Pro, Experienced or Normal. His answer was Experienced.

Grip level is the same for normal and experienced, the multiplier is 1.3 for both (1.45 for casual, 1.2 for pro). The CG is a bit higher, .75 versus .60 (experienced versus normal), but it doesn't make that much difference.

I use normal mode all assist off, autoclutch off, and they've never been enabled due to a host having them turned on.

I suspect what you experienced is a game bug where the setup of your car is glitched during an online race. This happens quite a lot with the Nissan GTR SpecV (R35) used for 14.0 rated races, about 1 out of 3 or 4 races depending on the host. I have run a set of races with the same host, all at 14.0, and my car will get glitched, unglitched, then glitched again randomly from race to race even though it's the same host and same car. In my cases the glitched car is always slower, about 3 or so seconds slower at Laguna Seca, compared to what I run offline or what I run online when the setup is not glitched. When my SpecV is glitched, the gears are taller, with 5th gear set taller than my normal 6th gear, reducing acceleration a lot whenever I need to use 5th gear. Traction is also reduced, mostly like the tire pressures getting messed up. Some report downforce is reduced, but I have downforce set to 0/1, so I don't notice this.

So far, in unrestricted races when using the Zonda R, I've never noticed any glitching. In the 14.0 races I've learned to notice the taller gearing and compensate by braking earlier when the SpecV gets glitched.

There may be a way around the online glitch affecting the V Spec gearing, if you uninstall the stage 3 transmission , and just use the shorter final drive from race upgrades instead it works out quite well except 6 gear is a little tall.
The gearing cant be adjusted and is locked , so cant be affected by online play like the custom settings you might be using at the moment .

The shorter final drive doesn't seem to do anything if you have a drivetrain installed, but based on your input it has an effect if you don't have a drivetrain installed. Since I'm only getting glitched 1 out of 3 or 4 races, it's not a big issue, and now I find I'm aware of the taller gearing by the time I've shifted into 4th gear at the race start.

I'm wondering if the game is messing up the setup or if the parts are getting swapped when this glitch happens.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 11/03/2009 22:43:14

This is what happens when I get that speed bug with the GT-R SpeecV where the 5th gear get really taller and I get very low downforce and grip, makes it really hard to be competitive on nordschleife when this happens.

I think top speed it about 325 km/h in 6th here and in the picture you see me doing 305 km/h in 5th gear. Normally my car will not go faster than 275 km/h in 6th gear. After this picture was taken I tested it on same track and the bug was gone.

Poul

nfs.rcgldr wrote:I suspect what you experienced is a game bug where the setup of your car is glitched during an online race.

Well, considering the things I've seen in this game, it's hard to rule out the possibility of this being caused by a bug. However, everytime my grip has been off and I've asked the host which handling mode he uses, it has always been Experienced or Pro. It would be very coincidental if everytime I had this bug that made my car handle as if I was on Ex/Pro, the host used one of these handling modes. On the other hand, the hosts might not be 100 % honest. They might be using Normal, but when asked, they say Pro just to appear as better than they really are.

As I've mentioned before, I've experienced one bug while driving online with the GT-R SpecV, and it makes my car accelerate much faster, and also increases my top speed with about 10 km/h. This bug is evident from the start of the race, because I usually rocket past everyone at the grid. My gearing is pretty much the same as without the bug, so it's not a tuning thing. Besides, I don't even have the level 3 transmission, so as Black-Shadow mentions, tuning can't mess up my gearing. I experience this bug about on in maybe 10-15 races, so it's no big deal. I have also seen somebody else with it. It would be hard to tell on a regular track, but this was Dakota Tri-Oval, and he was pulling 31 second laps. That would be enough to compete with Zonda's.

Anyways, I still can't rule out that I'm actually experiencing two different bugs. One that makes my car accelerate faster, and one that makes it handle as if I'm on Pro.

cem_ea_id.globalista wrote:

cem_ea_id.Bradbury wrote:

cem_ea_id.globalista wrote:Ummm, no. Do you really think NOBODY would notice the transition if in online races some hosts would force steering and braking assist on others?

You're obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed, so let me explain it for you. I mentioned "assists" and "handling mode", then I said that the latter is likely possible to force. The latter - in this context - meaning the last of the two, i.e. "handling mode". Is that too hard for you to understand?

Ah ok. But..

Surely you do realize the 4 "handling modes" (novice, normal, pro, expert) are just 4 different names for 4 different handling/assists presets? Try to cycle between the modes in Options and see for yourself. They become meaningless as soon as you change any setting within that preset. Let me explain.

For Normal mode, by default the assists are on low. So if you say you're playing on Normal, does that mean you're playing with assists on? No, you surely aren't a noob. So what happens when you let's say turn off those assists, and also set traction control all the way down for good measure? You guessed it, you're still on "Normal" handling mode.

What this means is that there's no tellling what normal or whichever other mode really means. Maybe a bug? But either way, filtering your online games by "handling mode" would be meaningless.

Hope I'm making sense...

wrong.....

Normal mode, assists set to high along with steering and braking help.
Experienced mode, assists set to high except traction which is set to low.
Pro mode, no assists, damage full.

not hard to work that out is it?

cem_ea_id.ximx wrote:
Normal mode, assists set to high along with steering and braking help.
Experienced mode, assists set to high except traction which is set to low.
Pro mode, no assists, damage full.

not hard to work that out is it?

I'm not exactly sure what your point is. Myself, like many others thought that the handling modes were just presets of different configurations of assists. We see this in several different games when it comes to graphics. For example, you can choose the High Graphics preset, but then you go to the advanced settings and maybe turn down the shadows. The name of the preset then usually changes from "High" to "Custom". This change doesn't occur in Shift, and that is the first sign of this not being just a preset. Driving completely without assists on both Normal and Pro, is what removes all doubt. Of course, you can also check out the XML-file to see the actual numbers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 11/04/2009 10:10:49

cem_ea_id.Bradbury wrote:

cem_ea_id.ximx wrote:
Normal mode, assists set to high along with steering and braking help.
Experienced mode, assists set to high except traction which is set to low.
Pro mode, no assists, damage full.

not hard to work that out is it?

I'm not exactly sure what your point is. Myself, like many others thought that the handling modes were just presets of different configurations of assists. We see this in several different games when it comes to graphics. For example, you can choose the High Graphics preset, but then you go to the advanced settings and maybe turn down the shadows. The name of the preset then usually changes from "High" to "Custom". This change doesn't occur in Shift, and that is the first sign of this not being just a preset. Driving completely without assists on both Normal and Pro, is what removes all doubt. Of course, you can also check out the XML-file to see the actual numbers.

I know exactly what you mean bradbury i customize my presets especially gfx.

my post was actually to the other guy, unless im reading wrong he implied that normal mode has assists set to low, they dont actually thats experienced, I know that because I customized my experienced preset, I turned traction to high not low as it sets it, I also turned damage to full like pro is, and steering/braking off which is set to off by default.

that was my point in my reply.

I have done career three times (without completing), first was on normal with no steering/braking help on. second was on experienced with the settings stated above, and the third time was on pro with everything off.

im not on my fourth attempt on a new customized experienced mode with manual shifting and cockpit view for added challenge.

normally i would go online but until they change the crap auto match instead of us deciding which to join I will not go online so 20000 noobs can ram me into the wall because they have no skill.

cem_ea_id.ximx wrote:

cem_ea_id.Bradbury wrote:

cem_ea_id.ximx wrote:
Normal mode, assists set to high along with steering and braking help.
Experienced mode, assists set to high except traction which is set to low.
Pro mode, no assists, damage full.

not hard to work that out is it?

I'm not exactly sure what your point is. Myself, like many others thought that the handling modes were just presets of different configurations of assists. We see this in several different games when it comes to graphics. For example, you can choose the High Graphics preset, but then you go to the advanced settings and maybe turn down the shadows. The name of the preset then usually changes from "High" to "Custom". This change doesn't occur in Shift, and that is the first sign of this not being just a preset. Driving completely without assists on both Normal and Pro, is what removes all doubt. Of course, you can also check out the XML-file to see the actual numbers.

I know exactly what you mean bradbury i customize my presets especially gfx.

my post was actually to the other guy, unless im reading wrong he implied that normal mode has assists set to low, they dont actually thats experienced, I know that because I customized my experienced preset, I turned traction to high not low as it sets it, I also turned damage to full like pro is, and steering/braking off which is set to off by default.

that was my point in my reply.

I have done career three times (without completing), first was on normal with no steering/braking help on. second was on experienced with the settings stated above, and the third time was on pro with everything off.

im not on my fourth attempt on a new customized experienced mode with manual shifting and cockpit view for added challenge.

normally i would go online but until they change the crap auto match instead of us deciding which to join I will not go online so 20000 noobs can ram me into the wall because they have no skill.

I tested this before i posted and I tested just now again, so you might wanna check your game again.. if you cycle thru the "presets" you will see Normal puts both assists on Low. The only preset that puts them on High is Casual.

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